Episode # 34: Indian Farmers Vs. Life
We are back after a long time. Aditya took a sabattical from city life and is back from God’s own country. Take a peek and get a preview of the bliss called Kerela! And Indicast will have a face lift soon! Listen to know more!
Moving on…
1992: “India is a land of farmers.” So said my history teacher in class IV.
2006: The land of farmers has turned its back on them. Since 2001, 2279 farmers have bid farewell to India in desperation. October 2006 alone saw 110 farmers joining the infamous club. Another million are considering the option seriously. No, they haven’t fled the country. They are history…
We at Indicast try to figure out the reason behind the death epidemic and more importantly what can be done to avert the crisis. There are a million unanswered questions. We’ll leave it at that. You guys decide what to make of it.
No, this is not melodrama. We are not trying to hype it up to get some brownie points from you. Listen to the podcast. Make your judgement. Tell us what you feel can be done and should be done to give our farmers a chance to lead a normal hand to mouth living. Our farmers deserve an opportunity to live. Isn’t that a fundamental right? May be not, if you are a farmer from a non descript taluka at Nashik in Marathwada earning 20 cents a day and supporting a family of four… tough luck.
Ah, last time we checked, India was a democratic country, wasn’t it?
Episode Notes:
- Do we need to go the China way by buliding Special Economic Zones?
- Indian farmers are a neglected lot and they remain so. Do they deserve a chance to live?
- If Laloo Prasad Yadav can turn around the fortune of the railways by doing his job, what on earth is Sharad Pawar doing for agriculture?
- Why is the media silent?
- Is there a solution to this utter lack of rationality?
- Will the farmers someday get what they should?
- Can we, the middle class, the common man do something about the situation and may be some day stop cribbing?
- Who the !@#$ can make the difference?
Yours Internetally,
Abhishek
P.S : Intro music provided by Alms for Shanti
Listen Online (64 kbps) :/Episode length : 20 mins
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Hey guys…
I’m a long time listener, first time commenter. I’m just as confused as anyone else over what the solution to this problem would be. But there one sweeping comment I would like to make. As a policy and ideology, to blindly apply other country’s success stories to India without (as it seems to me) an iota of planning and realization of socioeconomic intricacies and nuances within both countries is completely moronic (to put it nicely). Just because a SEZ scheme was successful in China, doesn’t mean that yoo can just transplant it into India. It’s the same as transplanting of organs in medicine. Everything in donor organs have to match to the host’s — blood type, blood factors etc… — so that it is most compatible with the host otherwise the body rejects the organ. Economic policies are much the same. Unless the situation in China or any other country mimics that of India, the policy is doomed to start with.
Similarly, China and India are always cast in the same conversation as they are both newly emerging markets. This shouldn’t be construed as similarity in circumstances of the two countries though. The internal politics of India and China are very different, starting from the structure of China being a communist totalitarian regime to India’s democratic structure.
Politicians need to look inwardly and realize the situation in India and work to correct it using their own ingenuity. It’s easy to look outward and copy an idea but that’s not going to work.
Vishal
P.S. Sorry if I seemed to bloviate.
Comment by Vishal — November 12, 2006 @ 4:51 pm
Vishal : I totally hear what you are saying… and believe me its like listening to an echo of what i am saying. So … the next step would be to find a solution for it. I think a few SEZ would have been a good idea but govt has approved nearly 380 SEZs. Where is the demand for so many?
Recently, there has been a trend where the large real estate developer have gone public calling themselves infrastructure development company. But what’s interesting is that if the SEZ fails, they will simply convert it to a real estate proposal and make loads of money. What happens to all the displaced farmers then?
Comment by Aditya — November 12, 2006 @ 6:50 pm
hey guys..
you guys are doing a great job. appreciate your efforts. awareness is the key to indian success these days I believe. thanks again.
-sakya
PS: A technical comment, its about the audio quality of your podcast. Could it be improved?
Comment by sakya — November 12, 2006 @ 8:21 pm
Sakya : I am looking out for good digital audio equipment and have also found one on Amazon.com but unfortunately they dont ship to India.
We could use a digital sound recording studio but its just too expensive. We are looking out for sponsorships but no luck so far. So as of now you will just have to bear with us.
Comment by Aditya — November 13, 2006 @ 5:05 pm
Mr. Vishal: You speak about politians being original but why don’t you try it youself. You said ditto what Aditya said in the show. Another thing though is that you write very well!
Rest: Good Show!
Comment by Ram — November 14, 2006 @ 3:45 am
Ram : First time commentor too? I just dont get it… Most of the politicians, IAS and other decision makers are from villages and the lesser known parts of Indian. Arent they in a better position to understand the plight and for once use the money for its actual purpose… I mean corruption in land acquisition for SEZ is one thing but gobbling up government’s money which is meant for all these farmers is completely another ball game.
I am not supporting corruption here but officials accepting bribes from Reliance wont make me as sad as misappropriation of governement funds.
Comment by Aditya — November 15, 2006 @ 6:46 am
This podcast wasn’t really very easy to hear.
I wonder what or HOW these people feel about the farmers.
Even though i’ve never spoken to a farmer, they’re still my countrymen… Being a politician - someone who SAYS they are going to help the poor, the 800 million odd who are living in rural areas.. Shouldn’t they feel even more patriotic than i do?
Maybe patriotic isn’t the right word… but shouldn’t they feel even more of an affinity to their FELLOW INDIANS, whose lives they PROMISED to improve?
I don’t see how anyone can look at their own countrymen and LET this happen for money.
It’s not like Reliance or Infosys or whatever can’t afford to pay taxes.. And the farmers, they owe like 75000 rupees. The government could just use the 20k crore they get from taxes to help them! instead of driving them to suicide.
I don’t know if i even make sense, but what i mean, i guess, is that being in the government - in a democracy (isn’t it ironic that democracy is for the PEOPLE and not just for certain PERSONS?) - people should help the people that need help, not facilitate (or kiss the asses) of people who will bring you money. Isn’t the very reason why people join the government (as opposed to an MNC) to help the people who need help?
Comment by Lavanya — November 15, 2006 @ 10:57 am
Hello guys,
I have been a regular and dedicated Indicast listener… I heard “Indian farmers Vs Life” where in I believe that media must pay more attention… a couple of days back there was another news where mumbai police lathi charged blind people !!! Reason: their silent protest againt government not providing them required facilities. It was really barbarian of our police force to blind people as of they were riotes.
I am wondering where our democracy is heading???
Had they used their barbarin nature on encrochments mumbai would have been a much better place to live…
Kindly bring out this topic in your next episode and let as know what you guys think about such barbarian acts.
Comment by Parag — November 15, 2006 @ 4:06 pm
Lavanya: Lets not be naive about why people join politics these days. Its to get contract work worth thousands of crores and not to work for people. That’s an after thought.
Parag : I seemed to have missed that story. Could you post a link in the comments.
As for a solution, how about Corporate India stepping forward and doing something for the farmers. I mean just think about the PR boost that a company will get if they take over loans of 100 farmers on the verge of committing suicide. It wont cost them more than 10 -15 lakhs. Even “offsite- brainstorming sessions” are costlier that 15 lakhs. I understand that its not corporate india’s “job” to take care of these problem, but wouldn’t hurt them at all. Think about all the publicity that a person like Narayan murthy or a Premji would get out of it. I think its worth it.
Comment by Aditya — November 15, 2006 @ 6:32 pm
Its way easier said that done my friend. Corporate India (leaving behind whether it’s its responsibility or not…though I argue it is) will never intervene in this kind of situation. Regardless of PR that any CEO or chairman would get, the benefits are really not worth it (from the mindset of a CEO/chairman). PR lasts for maybe a week or two and then it will die. What permanent benefit is left for the company directly (more than just good public image)? Little to none. The only industry that might be concerned are farm related industries (machinery, pharmaceuticals etc…). But even they won’t help out their customers. In the end, this is just lofty thinking. Everyone just talks..no one does.
Aditya: You are a member of corporate India! Why don’t you do something? Help 1 farmer or 2! I don’t mean to call you out. But this is what I mean. Everyone says, no one does. Whether its you, me, corporate India, politicians even up to the United Nations (read: a gathering of stubborn, close-minded, lazy diplomats who let people die all around the world…but thats for another day)…its all just talk!
Thanks
Ram
P.S. (totally off topic) you all should bring up UN’s inactivity, inefficienty and ineptitude in an episode. Its not necessarily an “Indian” topic but more globally. How many of your listeners are aware of Darfur? If you’re not, I suggest just watching this short little video clip made by a friend of mine: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1192129782887583672
Comment by Ram — November 15, 2006 @ 8:24 pm
Ram : I was talking about companies like Tata, Birla, M&M, Infy, Wipro and the likes… I dont think expecting start up companies who are barely sustaining (atleast in the first few years) to take this on is fair.
But believe me…two weeks of publicity is really good
Comment by Aditya — November 16, 2006 @ 1:34 pm
Aditya: Like I said before, I wasn’t specifically calling you out. It was a mere example. But you’ve proven my point. We all want something to be done but there is always something preventing us from taking action (the reason being valid or not).
Comment by Ram — November 17, 2006 @ 3:15 am
I have listened to your podcast couple of times, i am especially upset with the sharad pawar guy, he was at the ICC championship and awarding the Australian team and a little push to him by the Australian team was in the news for 3-4 day here in US. I know they shouldn’t have done that, but they discuss something like that, but do not have news on what is going on with the farmers.
Comment by Mayur — November 19, 2006 @ 5:10 am
I would first like to congratulate Aditya/Abhishek for this novel approach of posting their views through podcasts. I came across indicast while browsing itunes podcast directory and to be honest I didn’t expect much from it and it took me really long before I downloaded a show. But really you guys are doing a very good job andyour podcasts have been both thought provoking and enjoyable. Now I am doing the catching-up thing and listening to atleast one previous podcast of your everyday. I must admit that I am a pretty opinionated person and am interested to know others perspective on issues that I feel are important.
T
aking about SEZ’s, everyone is just stressing on the success of China and debating why it can’t be replicated here. Today China (and to similar extent other SE Asian countries like Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore) are really big in manufacturing. India so far has been competitive only in service sector; it is nowhere in picture in manufacturing scene. For India to truly become a developed nation, we need to create a ton of jobs in manufacturing and without setting up SEZ’s its going to be very very difficult, especially with the kind of beauracracy and red-tapism we have.
As far as Chidambaram’s bitching that India would lose so much revenue by setting up SEZ, my blunt reply is that mostof the revenues that he believes would be lost (more than 2/3 rds I believe) would not be generated at all in the first place. The simple reason is that without receiving any incentives no one would want to risk millions of dollars and get entangled with layers of corrupt officials.
However, I am completely against setting up SEZ’s at fertile lands and I know why the government is setting them up there. It would be highly expensive to develop barren unused lands, first identify them, then do feasibility studies, provide for transportation water, electricity etc. So they are looking for a easy option there.Typical Indian babu style.
Anyway’s I guess I have already written a lot. I have got more to say about the second issue you guys raised about the farmer’s suicide but I want to restrict this comment only to SEZ’s.
Thanks
Comment by Dharmin Desai — November 23, 2006 @ 5:45 am
Hey Dharmin,
Welcome to Indicast and we hope to see you here often…
I agree on the manufacturing but i am not sure if it will work now. China has already perfected the art of cheap manufacturing. Moreover, how cheap can we manufacture things when 65 paisa in a rupee is spent for corruption reasons
Comment by Aditya — November 23, 2006 @ 9:31 am
Aditya,
You are right when you talk about the bottlenecks due to corruption; but then isn’t it for the very reason that govt is talking about setting up SEZ’s. It is a good way of circumventing all the legal hassles and the corrupt babus.
The ground reality today is that India needs to create jobs not just for the skilled worker but also to the lesser educated lot. This is where manufacturing sector comes into picture- to provide jobs to Indians who wouldn’t be lucky enough to go to college. And believe me there are millions of them. We desperately need the manufacturing sector to replicate what services sector has done. Unless India makes giant strides in this field, it would never become a developed nation.
As far as competition with China is considered, I believe its not a serious problem. Moreover, a major chunk of all the products that we have in our Indian markets are made in these same “SEZ’s” in other countries. They are definitely going to get cheaper when they would be manufactured in India- the transportation cost would be lesser. Plus, why are you not considering the most important factor- the enterprising and hard working common Indian. There is every reason to believe that the success in IT and other services would be replicated in manufacturing.
Comment by Dharmin Desai — November 23, 2006 @ 11:10 pm
Hey Aditya & Abhishek,
First of all, I’d like to congratulate you guys on this awesome podcast. I’m posting for the first time and this comment does not relate to the Farmer problem. I think I’m not qualified or knowledgable enough to talk to about it. However, I was listening to an old episode of yours, which came out in Jan 2006, and you guys were surprised at the fact that Indian stock market was soon going to hit 10,000. Now, I believe its close to 13,500. I think it’s a good topic for you to talk about in one of the coming episodes.
Good luck for the future!!
Comment by Veeru — November 24, 2006 @ 4:13 pm
Dharmin : Good point about what the Mfg industry can do for the million of unfortunate and uneducated people. I think there is a lot of scope out there. I wish there was a co-operative movement for these guys just like Amul revolutionized the unorganized dairy sector. I think the daily labourers could do with such an org.
Veeru : Yeah ..well the BSE is like the Indian cricket team. Sometimes we play the entire day without loosing the wicket and the same team goes down for 91.
What can I say, If i knew that 10 months down the line, BSE would be at 13000 then I would have been known as an investment guru.
Thanks a lot for the wishes… hope to see you in the comments section often.
Comment by Aditya — November 27, 2006 @ 8:31 am
Aditya and Abhishek, please accept my thanks for bringing up indicast. It has become a regular feature on my commute. I like your style because it reminds me of good old hostel days when we used to sit outside our rooms and chat for hours. Secondly, I admire your awareness of social issues as well as business pragmatism. Keep it going.
Now on this topic. I don’t have a solution, but I do have a fear. Farmers provide the most important thing to the country … food. It appears that they are being ignored and hence they feel frustrated. Some commit suicide. What would happen if some of them think like CEOs of multinationals? I mean … profit. What if a farmer thinks that rice and wheat have little ROI compared to opium? What if they switch to farming stuff that has ruined countries in South America? If these farmers are left with no option, that is a possibility. Of course there will be some measures to curb all that but then remember … a majority of our country’s population is rural. If that population gets frustrated and turns to easy money, there will be chaos.
I am sure it won’t come to that, because India is fundamentally different and these farmers will keep doing what they do i.e. grow rice, wheat etc. But my point is that we shouldn’t take them for granted. Sorry but I don’t have a solution. I hope these smart IAS people come up with a solution.
Thank you.
Rahul
Comment by Rahul — November 29, 2006 @ 8:29 pm
Rahul:
I agree that cultivating opium poppy like you suggested helps supplement subsistence-level incomes. The monsoon and soil conditions for growing opium are also very reasonable. But, let’s take the case of Afghanistan whose opium exports constitute a whopping 50 % of its GDP. Afghanistan’s poppy fields are the source of three quarters of total world heroin production, and thus contribute to worldwide drug abuse and addiction, as well as the spread of HIV infection. According to the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC), at least 100,000 people die annually—directly or indirectly— because of their addiction to Afghan opium. In addition, the lucrative trade in opium and heroin contributes to regional and international insecurity through narco-terrorism, drug trafficking, money laundering, and other illicit activities.
With India trying to “build” relationships with the US, they will systematically supress any revolt from the farmers.
But, with Walmart entering the country, they have been given the permission to source the vegetables directly from the farmers. Although they have a huge bargaining power, I am hoping that the economies of scale will help a few ….
Keep Listening. Thanks for the good words! We do try and research a bit but, like always, one of the two of us pops up a question for which there is no secondary data to refer to. So, we try to keep it simple. We are glad to entertain you on your drives to work!
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